About The Episode
In this episode of The Unfair Advantage, host David Hibiske sits down with Pastor Matt Brown, founder of Sandals Church, to reflect on nearly 30 years of church planting. Matt shares his journey from humble beginnings with no funding or network to leading a multi-campus church with over 14 locations. With candor and humility, he unpacks lessons in resiliency, staffing, leadership clarity, and trusting God through setbacks and breakthroughs. His story highlights both the painful missteps and the pivotal decisions that shaped Sandals Church into what it is today, offering wisdom and encouragement for pastors and church planters navigating their own challenges.
Welcome to Episode 043 of The Unfair Advantage Podcast with David Hibiske.
Insights From Matt
- Resiliency is essential.
Matt emphasizes that much of church planting success comes from simply hanging in when others quit. Breakthrough often comes right after seasons of discouragement. - Don’t rush multi-site.
Sandals stumbled into multi-site ministry through unexpected opportunities, but Matt warns planters not to pursue it out of ego or comparison. Multi-site only works when God leads and the foundation is solid. - Hire slowly and wisely.
Early mistakes came from hiring friends, family, or the wrong personalities. Matt now stresses hiring for alignment with God, the church, and the senior leader—not just talent. - Clarity beats people-pleasing.
A lack of leadership clarity caused staff frustrations and even accusations of dishonesty. Matt learned that it’s better to clearly define roles, expectations, and authority—even when it risks upsetting people. - Leadership growth requires listening.
At age 40, Matt realized he had to lead better, love his staff more, and listen to them. Differentiating between organizational problems and personality misalignments became a turning point. - Painful decisions bring growth.
Letting go of his brother as executive pastor and later hiring a high-capacity leader against his team’s advice were pivotal, though difficult, decisions that unlocked significant growth. - God provides when the need is real.
From a Porsche being donated to millions raised in a week, Matt testifies that when God calls, He provides—even when circumstances look impossible.
Episode Links
Every Day A Miracle, by Matthew Stephen Brown
The Debrief Podcast with Matthew Stephen Brown
Do ministry together! Three gatherings, nine planters, one cohesive journey. Check out the Ascent Leader Church Planter Cohorts. Get more information today at: https://theascentleader.org/cohorts/
Who Is Matt Brown?
Matthew Stephen Brown is the founding and Senior Pastor at Sandals Church in Riverside, CA. From a small 8-person church plant in 1997, Sandals Church now has 15 physical campuses throughout California, a growing online campus with more than 50 countries tuning in, and a digital presence reaching 110,000 people weekly. In 2021, Matt released his first book, A Book Called YOU: Understanding the Enneagram from a Biblical Perspective. A Book Called YOU helps the reader learn about the person they were made to be and how a biblical view of self-discovery can improve every part of their life. With his second book, Everyday a Miracle: Trusting the God Who Heals Us Inside and Out, Matt asks the question: Where do you go when you need a miracle? He shows the reader that every day, there is an opportunity for a miracle and invites them onto the journey to discover Jesus not only as Savior but as Healer. As Sandals Church continues to grow, the focus is on the gospel being spread throughout the nations as more people embrace the vision of authenticity—being real with ourselves, God, and others.
Sponsors
Thanks to our sponsor: Generis.
A generous church is a healthy, growing church. So, if you’re ready to advance your mission, visit Generis.com/getstarted today!
Our goal with the Ascent Leader and our church planting cohorts is to help church planters win early and finish strong. We want to resource you so that you can avoid common pitfalls and simple mistakes. Being involved in a community of leaders like our church planting cohorts is one of the best ways to wrestle through these questions. We’re here to help you, if we can be of assistance to you please feel free to reach out.
Contact our team: ops@theascentleader.org
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