Jesse DeYoung
A Must-Listen: Jesse DeYoung on Navigating Organizational Doubt
About The Episode
“When you’re not clear on your vision, your culture, or your strategy, and things get out of alignment, bringing it back into alignment will come with a lot of pain. But once you get there, you’ll wonder how you ever existed without that alignment.” Meet Jesse DeYoung, Executive Lead Pastor of Flatirons Church. Today’s discussion is all about the critical topic of organizational doubt and its impact on church leadership. Jesse shares insights from his experience at Flatirons Community Church, where organizational misalignment led to significant challenges, including staff turnover and cultural rebuilding. He introduces a five-stage model of organizational doubt, ranging from suspended doubt to absolute doubt, and offers practical advice for addressing each level.
Welcome to Episode 123 of the Leaders in Living Rooms Podcast with Sean Morgan.
Insights from Jesse
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- Understanding the Five Stages of Organizational Doubt
The five stages of doubt help leaders understand where their team members might be struggling:
- Understanding the Five Stages of Organizational Doubt
- Suspended Doubt: This stage reflects individuals with no perceived doubt. They are usually new team members filled with enthusiasm and optimism.
- Operational Doubt: Team members question how things are done. Their concerns focus on tactical decisions, processes, or policies.
- Ideological Doubt: This deeper level involves questioning what the organization does. Team members may disagree with core strategies, methods, or even the mission itself.
- Ethical Doubt: Doubt escalates to questioning who is leading. Leaders’ integrity, motives, or competence may be under scrutiny.
- Absolute Doubt: At this critical stage, trust in the entire organization is lost. Individuals in this state often disengage or become active disruptors.
- How Doubt Progresses and the Cost of Inaction
DeYoung explained that unaddressed concerns naturally escalate. If a practical question about how something is done isn’t resolved, it can morph into doubts about why the organization exists. Left unchecked, these doubts eventually erode trust in leadership.
“The deeper the doubt, the greater the internal tension—not just with the organization, but personally and relationally.”
When leaders fail to engage with concerns early, they risk creating a toxic environment where frustration builds, productivity drops, and team cohesion suffers.
- The Danger of Quiet Quitting and Disruption
DeYoung referenced a McKinsey study that found quiet quitters—those who only meet minimal job expectations—can make up 20-40% of an organization. Even more concerning, up to 11% of these individuals may become active disruptors, working against the organization’s goals.
- Quiet Quitters: They fulfill basic job requirements but are disengaged, often isolating themselves from team culture.
- Disruptors: Unlike quiet quitters, disruptors may be vocal and actively critical, rallying others to their cause. They can appear productive but undermine leadership and create division.
- Strategies for Leaders: Address Doubt Early
Leaders must develop the courage to face doubt head-on, recognizing it as a natural part of organizational dynamics. DeYoung emphasized that leaders should:
- Diagnose the Doubt: Understand where concerns fall within the five-stage model.
- Engage with Empathy: Ask meaningful questions like “What excites you about our work?” to gauge emotional engagement.
- Reaffirm the Mission: Help team members reconnect with the organization’s purpose and the leaders’ hearts.
- Act Decisively: When necessary, leaders must help team members transition out of the organization if trust and alignment cannot be restored.
- The Long Game: Pain Leads to Progress
DeYoung shared from personal experience that realigning an organization is painful but worthwhile. After navigating staff turnover and cultural rebuilding, he highlighted the renewed sense of purpose, trust, and team cohesion his church experienced.
“Bringing it back into alignment will come with a lot of pain. But once you get there, you’ll wonder how you ever existed without that clarity.”
Building a thriving organization requires clarity, courage, and relentless focus on mission alignment. Leaders must be prepared to embrace difficult conversations, trust-building efforts, and sometimes painful transitions. The reward? A team deeply committed to the mission and energized to work toward a shared vision.
Episode Links
Building Organizational Trust and Managing Organizational Doubt, blog by Jesse DeYoung
If you’re a leader approaching a succession or transition. Or maybe you’re a few years in and beginning to see how complex transitions leadership is… go to The Art of Pastoral Succession and check out my brand new course in partnership with Carey Nieuwhof. Are you in Transition or have one on the horizon? Check out our 2023 cohorts and get connected with us at: https://theascentleader.org/cohorts/
Who is Jesse DeYoung?
Jesse DeYoung has been in ministry for 19 years and currently serves Flatirons Church in Denver, CO as the Executive Lead Pastor, where he helps leaders and ministries have a significant impact through developing and equipping teams to make high-level strategic decisions. He’s especially passionate about staff culture, rebuilding teams, and the relationship between the Lead Pastor and Executive Pastor. Known for his discernment, and self-deprecating humor, Jesse is always looking for opportunities to develop and challenge the people around him, making him a reliable sounding board for all levels of the organization. When he’s not developing his staff, you can find Jesse playing ping pong, enjoying coffee, and exploring the outdoors with his wife Kara and four kids.
Sponsors
Thanks to our sponsor: Food For The Hungry.
Combine your church’s heart for the poor and Food for the Hungry’s global experience at fh.org/churches.
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About the Host
Sean Morgan is a coach and speaker with a national reputation as a catalyst of fresh vision. His passion is to help ministries navigate obstacles and turn them into opportunities.
Throughout his career, Sean has pioneered initiatives impacting thousands of leaders across the country. He started out serving as Executive Pastor and CFO at New Life Church in northern California.
As host, Sean gives you access to amazing conversations, hard-won wisdom, and poignant insights from world-class leaders in intimate “living room” settings.
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